Sunrise Tantalize

Doctrine & Covenants 131:1-4:

1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; 2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; 3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it. 4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

What does that passage mean to you? To me, the first 15 times I read it, it meant, there are three kingdoms of heaven - celestial, terrestrial, and telestial. To make it to the Celestial Kingdom, you must enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage (eternal/temple marriage).

“Oh well,” I thought. “I’m screwed. I’ll most likely not have an eternal marriage. I’ll be in the Terrestrial Kingdom. I won’t be married to J*.” When I told J this, he said, “Oh good! You can be with me and all the other sinners.” This was followed up by a comment about he only wants to be in a heaven where there is good beer. I told him he better hope that he doesn’t end up in the Mormon afterlife. (His love of beer is one of his top reasons for not converting. He’s the kind of guy that likes to come home and drink a bottle of some sort of expensive beer. )

Anyhow, I’ve been feeling a little guilty, a little sad about this. And I’ve been asking myself some questions: Should I even be in a religion where I know I won’t make it to the top heaven? Why am I following all of these other commandments? Maybe I should break them! j/k. So I start wandering the web, trying to find out how other people have dealt with interfaith marriage. And I come across this wonderful post at BCC that seems to indicate that my interpretation of D&C 131:1-4 is really the less frequent, alternative interpretation. Kevin Barney said (emphasis added):

The traditional understanding of this passage is that the Celestial Kingdom is divided into three subdegrees of glory.

A number of years ago, I learned of another possible reading of this passage from a friend who had heard it from a temple president in California. The basic insight of this alternate reading is this: What if the expression “celestial glory” were not intended as a technical term for the Celestial Kingdom, but in a generic sense, something like “yonder heavens”? In that event, the “three heavens or degrees” would not be subdegrees within the CK, but rather simply the same three degrees of glory spoken of in the Vision of D&C 76.

After reading that, I thought, “Oh thank goodness!” I’ve been interpreting it wrong the whole time! Eternal marriage is required to make it into the top, top heaven, the upper echelon of the Celestial Kingdom (CK). Now, in Kevin Barney’s post he is suggesting that the alternative reading may be the correct one. I’m going to hope that the more well-known interpretation is correct. Of course none of this really matters because once I am dead, there’s nothing I can do about the choices I made on earth. Well, I suppose I can repent, but to what degree.

*Note: I’m referring to The Boy as J now because it’s easier to type.

I read over the First Vision again, though I haven’t gotten around to comparing the different versions yet. There have been several posts over at Mormon Matters on it (part I, II, and III). Besides the questions that John Nilsson asks, I’ve been pondering this question:

If you saw God, what would he/she/it look like? Would God conform to your expectations? For example, if you thought God was a woman, would God appear as a woman? What if you expected God to be black, white, a man, a woman, old, or young? Would God speak as you expected it to? If you expected Him to speak English, would He speak in Old English, Middle English, early Modern English (eME), imperfect eME, modern English? Even if you put some restrictions on what God could look like - body of flesh and bones, looks like a human, male - some of those questions still remain. Are we correct to shape our image of God after the God that Joseph Smith described?

I don’t know what I would see if God were to appear to me. My image of God has already changed several times. I used to picture the Trinity as a glowing ball of some sort of airy substance, though that was alway a difficult thing to pray to. I guess that’s what the Holy Ghost looks like when it’s out and about, but I also converse with the Holy Ghost within me. Jesus would probably look like the stereotypical Jesus - long brown hair, beard, etc. But I don’t have a concrete image of Heavenly Father in my head. I think it’s more important to understand how he would talk to me if I was speaking to him in person.

Our topic of the day in Relief Society was on personal revelation and prayer and it drew from the book, Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith.

All religions have a specific way of praying. Mormons have a very specific way of praying. Arms folded. Eyes closed or at least cast down. Address Heavenly Father (use Thee and Thou, not you and your). Thank Him. Ask Him for his help. (Sometimes bear your testimony.) “We pray in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.” Pray all the time. It still surprises me how someone just hop up and say a prayer on cue. I have a sneaking suspicion that it’s almost like a fill-in-the-blank prayer. Or similar prayers with some variations. Then I found this quote from a Church member who heard Joseph Smith pray:

“Never until then had I heard a man address his Maker as though He was present listening as a kind father would listen to the sorrows of a dutiful child… There was no ostentation, no raising of the voice as by enthusiasm, but a plain conversational tone, as a man would address a present friend, It appeared to me as though, in case the veil were taken away, I could see the Lord standing facing His humblest of all servants I had ever seen.” (p. 127)

This is my preferred way of praying. Just like I’m having a conversation with God. Not the strict, structured, formal way that I’ve heard in church. Maybe people feel like they need to be more formal in church. But if Joseph Smith could pray in a more casual, but respectful way, then we should be able to do that too. Because JS was an example to us. Of course, I look at the example of the prayer that Joseph Smith offered and it seems very formal to me. But maybe that’s because Smith speaks in the language of his time.

So to sum it up (I’ve had too many years of note-taking):

• Address Heavenly Father as if he is “a present friend”.
• “Be plain and simple and ask for what you want”
• “Remember that without asking we can receive nothing”
• Don’t pray for things you don’t need
• “Pray earnestly for the best gifts” (emphasis mine)
• Pray always, keep a prayer in your heart
• Pray about everything
• Pray over everything
• Ask for God’s blessing in everything you do

from p. 127-131

First, a quick note about my confirmation, I didn’t really feel any different at first though it was a cool experience. I did feel that taking part in the sacrament was more special than when I’ve taken communion before (in my previous faith). Then later in the day I was wandering around the house and I found myself singing softly to myself. The only time I sing is when I’m really happy - so, I guess I was happy.

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I think I might take a slight turn in my posts and try to write about things that I’m exploring about my faith. They’ll be a little bit more abstract, a little bit more uncertain. I was meandering around the lds.org website and I read some things from the handbook that the Young Women use and I realized how differently I look at things compared to those who grew up in the LDS church. I’ve also been catching up on my reading about Joseph Smith and there’s so much I don’t know yet about the church. So be patient with me, I’m still learning.

This post is a follow-up to the post on Alternative Spiritual Practices and LDS Women. I found a great article at the FAIR website. You can find it here. The most useful part of the article for this post is the section under the subtitle of “Priesthood and Patriarchy”.

This quote sums up my objection very well:

However, for some, the Priesthood/motherhood dichotomy is problematic as a false one in regard to men’s and women’s separate roles. Harrison and Richards have called this notion “that for mortal women motherhood is the parallel to priesthood…equally spurious, since all women are not mothers; fatherhood, not priesthood, is the male counterpart to motherhood. Furthermore, motherhood and fatherhood are bestowed on the righteous and the wicked alike.”

I think this is why I have a problem with men having the priesthood when women don’t. Priesthood is not analogous to motherhood! I respect that men and women are not the same and that each gender has special things to offer. However, priesthood - made possible through the atonement - is only granted to worthy male members of the LDS Church. And the priesthood is exercised righteously. Motherhood is available to everyone - worthy and unworthy, and it’s not always exercised righteously.

I would like the Church to create a special spiritual role only available to worthy LDS women. I have no idea what to call it, but for convenience I’ll use “priestesshood” for now. As I was writing my definition for the priestesshood, I found that I also needed to change the definition of the priesthood. I’ll post the original definitions or description from LDS.org below and then I’ll do my definitions.

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CURRENT DESCRIPTIONS OF MALE AND FEMALE ROLES WITHIN THE LDS CHURCH

Women in the church: “In weekly worship services and classes, women preach sermons, offer prayers in behalf of the congregation, and teach adults and children. They may also serve as missionaries and as presidents of the Relief Society, Young Women, and Primary organizations. Women participate in councils that oversee congregational activities throughout the world. They also perform a vital work in nurturing and teaching in the home.” (LDS.org)

Priesthood: “The priesthood is the eternal power and authority of God. Through the priesthood God created and governs the heavens and the earth. Through this power He redeems and exalts His children, bringing to pass “the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39). God gives priesthood authority to worthy male members of the Church so they can act in His name for the salvation of His children. Priesthood holders can be authorized to preach the gospel, administer the ordinances of salvation, and govern the kingdom of God on the earth. (LDS.org)

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SUNLIZE’S PROPOSAL OF MALE AND FEMALE ROLES WITHIN THE LDS CHURCH

Priestesshood: The priestesshood is the eternal power and love of God. Through the priestesshood God created and nutures humankind. Through this power He loves and teaches His children, bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of man and woman. God gives priestesshood authority to worthy female members of the Church so they can act in His name for the care of His children. Priesthood holders can be authorized to preach the gospel, teach men, women and children, and care for the physical, emotional and spiritual health of church members. Priestesshood holders govern the kingdom of God on the earth along with priesthood holders. A mother who holds the priestesshood is the primary parent responsible for nurturing, teaching and healing within the home. A wife who holds the priestesshood is a partner and the chief supporter of her husband and his role as priesthood holder.

Priesthood: The priesthood is the eternal power and authority of God. Through the priesthood God created and governs the heavens and the earth. Through this power He redeems and exalts His children, bringing to pass “the immortality and eternal life of man [and woman]” (Moses 1:39). God gives priesthood authority to worthy male members of the Church so they can act in His name for the salvation of His children. Priesthood holders can be authorized to preach the gospel, administer the ordinances of salvation, and govern the kingdom of God on the earth. Priesthood holders govern the kingdom of God on the earth along with priestesshood holders. A father who holds the priesthood is the primary parent responsible for administering ordinances, teaching the gospel, and financially supporting his family. A husband who holds the priesthood is a partner and the chief supporter of his wife and her role as priestesshood holder.

***

So what do you think? Am I making more sense? What would you change in either my proposal or the current Church descriptions of male and female roles?

My last post got me thinking about personal revelation and/or personal experiences with the divine. I love personal revelation. It’s one of the things that drew me to the LDS Church. Its something I’ve immediately hooked into despite the fact that I’m not yet confirmed. For me, personal revelation is different than prayer. Prayer is when I take the time to address God and thank him for what I have been given, ask for blessings and help for those who need it, and to request help for myself. If I have questions that need answering through personal revelation, then I ask during prayer. Then I wait and continue going about my life. Sometimes I have to pray about things multiple times.

Then I get a very clear answer from the Spirit, usually while I’m doing something random like brushing my teeth or just walking around the house. It’s hard to describe what an answer feels like. It is a very clear thought that rises to my consciousness. It’s a thought that wasn’t there before. It’s usually something I haven’t thought of. Sometimes I question it, “Are you sure this is an answer? Is this what I need to know?” And the answer is “yes”. The answers are usually simple - conveyed in only one or two sentences. I doubt that these are responses that give me complete knowledge of the issue I’m asking about. It’s simply not God’s way to disclose everything. Where is the mystery and faith in that?

Learning to engage the spirit and to obtain personal revelation and seek confirmation from the Spirit was difficult at first. Sometimes I felt like I was jumping up and down and waving my spiritual arms above my head and shouting, “Hey! Hey! I’m over here! I have a question!” One of the first things I learned is to pray with intent. It is important to not just give God a specific set of answers to a question. I have to keep a peaceful mind. I typically don’t get an answer right after my prayer so I’ve learned to expect an answer at anytime or anywhere.

Feeling the Spirit/ revelation seems like my spiritual gift. It feels so right. I don’t believe that the Spirit can only be felt through the LDS faith or that Mormons have a monopoly on receiving answers from the Spirit. I do believe that for me the LDS faith is my conduit for the Spirit and experiencing personal revelation. I think that my gift could be helpful to others, but right now that is not my role. Besides I think my questions and answers would be different if I was seeking revelation for people other than myself.

Do you believe people can have spiritual gifts like revelation? Do you feel that you have a spiritual gift? I think being able to interpret scriptures is a spiritual gift. Is it blasphemous to claim to have spiritual gifts? Does someone need to say that you have such a gift?

My answers are yes, yes, no?, and no?.

This post came out of a response to a post on Mormon Women and Alternative Spiritual Paths by Bored in Vernal that got me thinking. In the post, Bored in Vernal wonders how and if LDS women who find value in alternative spiritual paths are able to reconcile their beliefs with the LDS Church. She compares the experiences of LDS women in the early days of the Church versus the experiences of women today.

I recently took a class on Medieval women writers who often wrote on religious material. Some of these women included Julian of Norwich, Margery Kempe, and Marie de France. Several of these women had alternative spiritual experiences. Some women spoke to God or Jesus Christ. Some saw the forbidden sacrament chalice quiver and rise into the air. Many women had visions. Many engaged in self-starvation and only consumed the sacrament. The theory is that since women were devalued by both the Medieval (Catholic) Church and society, that they had to take alternative paths to access or experience a higher power. There’s also theories about why so many of these experiences involve women’s bodies.

The LDS Church is also patriarchal, though women are valued much more than they were in the Middle Ages. I wonder if women in the LDS Church are also forced to find other ways of experiencing God since they are denied the power that comes with holding the priesthood. (And yes, it is power - even if it is only used for good. Men make up the leadership of our church.) In her post, Bored in Vernal says that many women who are drawn to alternative spiritual paths within the LDS Church often either go underground or leave the church due to differences with church members and leaders. I see this as the patriarchy repressing alternative ways of seeking God that do not honor the patriarchal structure.

It is taught that men and women have different roles in the church. Men should be fathers, providers, and priesthood holders. Women should be mothers and nurturers. Notice that women lack a spiritual role; a way to access God like that of men. If men and women are truly equal in their roles, then women should have their own spiritual role. Perhaps women are creating this role for themselves by exploring alternative spiritual paths - and I think Church leaders should respect, and maybe even encourage that role. (I should note that I have read that women working in temples do have that type of spiritual role, though I haven’t done any research on this myself.)

Personally I believe that women will receive a sanctioned spiritual role within the Church equal to but not the same as the priesthood. It’s only a question of time. This is a personal revelation of mine. Perhaps the women of the church need to embrace their alternative spiritual practices and this will cause the change to occur more quickly. If many women are blessing their sick or stressed children, then maybe this will be an accepted practice. Or maybe women need to find their own spiritual paths - paths that were used during the early days of the Mormon Church.

Alternative spiritual paths can be practicing divination, healing, prophesy, speaking in tongues, experiencing visions, et cetera. I find myself most drawn to healing and this makes sense since my career goal is to be a nurse. I could see myself as using aspects of the LDS faith to promote healing and proactive health practices among members. I can see LDS midwives using their faith to guide women and their families through healthy pregnancies and births. And I believe that many families are looking for this kind of care. Perhaps I’ll have to write a post on integrating healthcare and spiritual beliefs…

Since investigating Mormonism I have worried over the fact that my boyfriend (and probable future husband) is not interested in the LDS Church. I worry about if our marriage will be stressed because we are of different faiths. I worry that I’m doing something wrong by not joining a church together. And I worry that we won’t be married for eternity.

Prior to investigating Mormonism, I always assumed that marriages and other family ties outlived death. This wasn’t based on any scriptural evidence, it was simply intuitive. Many non-LDS people think that way, despite the “until death do you part” clause of the typical marriage vows. BUT if I subscribe to LDS beliefs then family bonds do not extend beyond death unless they are sealed in a temple. My boyfriend would say, “Why is that? Would a caring, loving God really separate families?”

Well, you have to think about it in the LDS way and remember that Mormons believe in pre-existence. We are all children of God; we are all spiritual brothers and sisters. That is our initial bond to each other. You can think of the sealings on earth as a reassignment of those bonds into individual family units. This makes it slightly less weird to be sleeping with your spiritual brother (i.e. your husband). Without this reassignment of bonds, you are released from your earthly family bonds after death and you return to being merely a spiritual sister to your former husband, parents and children. According to LDS beliefs, only bonds sanctified by God in the temples are strong enough to withstand death and thus those spirits within those bonds do not experience dispersal of earthly familial bonds and they can retain their husband-wife, parent-child, etc relationships. (This is all sunlize thinking and not really official doctrine. This is my theory guided by the Spirit.)

This leads me to my question: How important is it to get married for now and eternity during our time on earth?

I think it is important to be married for eternity and sealed to our children, but I’m not sure if those events must be completed during our time on earth. This is mainly due to the work for the dead that takes place in the temples. Let’s assume that I marry my non-LDS boyfriend for this lifetime and he never converts. I will simply make sure that we are sealed after our deaths. (Well, I suppose he’d have to be baptized first and all that jazz.) Temple marriage by proxy wouldn’t be that hard to arrange. I could always have my children submit our names, or a close friend, or I could even write it in my will. I’m assuming that the Boy will accept the ordinances done in his name after death if he finds himself in ’spirit prison’. And if there is no spirit prison, then the ordinances won’t cause any harm.

Sure, there are blessings that come from being married or sealed in the temple, but these are related more to the blessings that come from both spouses/ parents being of LDS faith. For the marriage, conflict over issues of faith or of raising the children. Spouses are probably more likely to see eye-to-eye on financial and social issues. For the family, a family with the same faith is probably more cohesive in that part of their life. Everyone abides by the same rules of conduct. If the father is LDS, then he can administer ordinances like blessings and baptisms. Does this mean that mixed-faith marriages are worse than LDS marriages? No. There are plenty of good mixed faith marriages, just as there are some bad temple marriages.

I am also unsure that it is important to be sealed to your spouse during this lifetime because marriages change. Having a temple marriage does not ensure that both spouses will remain TBMs for the rest of their lives. I have read too many stories where one spouse becomes inactive or leaves the LDS faith. I’ve read stories of both spouses leaving the faith. And some of these people had incredibly strong testimonies throughout their lives. They never thought that they would leave the Church. Their spouses never thought their eternal marriage would become disrupted.

So I say, love the one you’re with. Marriages don’t succeed or fail based on the participants’ religious beliefs (or lack thereof). Ability to compromise, to accept your partner as he is, and to respect your partner’s beliefs are essential to having a successful marriage.

I believe in a very personal relationship with God. God and I have the agreement that I am responsible for my own salvation and exaltation, and no one else’s. There are key two points to that agreement. First, I am responsible for my salvation and exaltation. I am responsible for finding the right path back to Heavenly Father. It’s up to me to make covenants with God and follow his commandments to the best of my ability. Also, I can’t blame my problems or mistakes on anyone else.

The second part of my agreement with God is that I am not responsible for anyone else’s salvation. This has relieved a lot of stress for me. Sure, I can expose others to my faith so that they may see how it has changed my life. I cannot, however, convert them. I should not try to convert them. If they want to learn more about then that’s cool. I’ll teach them or invite them to church or send to the missionaries to be taught. But if someone doesn’t want to hear about the Church, that’s okay too.

The only person I wish would become LDS is my boyfriend. Still I cannot convert him. I really want an eternal marriage and I want to be sealed to my future children and I want to share my faith with my boyfriend. It makes me sad that I can’t have that. I observed a naming and blessing of a new baby the other day and I thought that it was really special that the dad could do that for his son. I wish we believed the same things. I wish he could see what I can see.

I believe that people must be exposed to a concept a certain number of times before they will actually consider it. It’s like the theory about introducing food to picky eaters. Some kids will have to be offered a food 10 times before they will actually try it. I figure that I count as a contact point with mormonism for those who aren’t LDS. If someone can have a positive experience with me while knowing that I’m LDS, then maybe they are more likely to try the LDS Church. Or at least they are more likely to ignore or correct stereotypes about Mormons in the future.

Do you consider yourself a member missionary? In what way?

Today I was baptized! Yay! But not confirmed… which is a little weird. So I’ve been washed of my sins and I’m following God’s covenants, but I don’t have the Holy Ghost to guide me? Interesting.

My mom is not happy. Apparently she doesn’t believe in God anymore. I don’t know when that happened. They just joined a church four or five years ago. My dad, on the other hand, is super interested. He says he likes to learn about new religions. Especially Christian religions. He’s coming to my confirmation next week.

So the baptismal service was very nice. I met a lot of people for the first time since I’ve been attending various wards in the area. I am so grateful for the young couple who helped organize and run the service. Five minutes into the service I started regretting that my parents, especially my mom, was there. I was freaking out about how she would take some of the things the speakers were saying. Eventually I started to pray for God to soften my family’s hearts and left it up to him. I’m sure it didn’t help that I forgot to take my antidepressant meds that day.

I think I’ll describe what happened at my baptism because that’s one of the things I wondered about before my baptism.

I got to the church thirty minutes early. The couple that was helping with the service was there. They gave me a choice of two white baptismal gowns to wear. One looked like a nightgown and one looked more like a dress. I decided not to get changed before the service began because my family would give me a really hard time. Looking back on it, the gown that looked like a dress wasn’t all that bad and I could have worn that. I went to the front of the church just in time to welcome my family and friends.

The service started with the bishop welcoming everyone. There was an opening hymn and a prayer. One of the ward members who taught me with the missionaries did a talk on baptism and confirmation. Then the pianist played a special song. Then I went into the bathroom and changed into the baptismal gown that looked more like a dress. In the meanwhile, everyone went out into the sanctuary where the baptismal font is. There’s doors that separate the baptismal font from the sanctuary, and the font is near the men and women’s bathrooms. The font sinks into the ground and looks like an L with steps on the short part of the L and the rest of the font perpendicular to it. There’s glass that separates the font area from the sanctuary. Luckily the water was about bath water temperature.

The missionaries had me take off my watch and the black hair tie that was around my wrist. We had a one minute discussion about what to do with my glasses. I convinced them to let me keep my glasses so that I didn’t trip down the steps and crack my head open. I put them on the ledge of the font right before I got baptized. We practiced how the baptism would be done and made sure that the missionary who was baptizing me knew what to say. Then we went into the font and they opened the doors to the sanctuary. All the little kids were sitting in the front and obviously they found this part the most interesting. My dress floated up around me so I had to push it down into the water. Guys have it easy - they get to wear pants. The missionary held my right wrist with his left hand and I grabbed his wrist with my left hand. Then he said the prayer and I bent my knees and leaned backwards while he supported my back so I didn’t fall all the way over. When I came up, I couldn’t see anything. No one said anything, so I whispered, “Did I go all the way under?” And still no one said anything and they shut the doors really quickly. I was happy that I couldn’t see much so that I didn’t see my mom’s face when I came up.

Then I dripped all over the place until someone found a towel. In the bathroom I managed to pull the zipper of the dress down and peel the dress off. Let me tell you, I am very glad I wore white underwear and a nude colored full slip under that dress. Because when I got dunked it turned into a wet tee-shirt contest where I was the only contestant. (Not really - but wet clothes really cling to the body.) Halfway through changing I remembered reading something about a missionary schpeal to the family and friends while I was changing, so I hurried up and didn’t dry my hair. When I got out of the bathroom, the bishop told me that I wouldn’t be confirmed today. That will be next week. Luckily, they only watched a movie about Jesus’s life while I was changing. It didn’t look that bad and showed familiar things - the Last Supper; Jesus washing people’s feet. Some little kid behind me said, “Is that Jesus Christ?” in a loud whisper. They turned the movie off a minute or two I returned from the bathroom.

When I sat down, my mom turned around and gave me the look of death. It was a how can you do this, you are brainwashed, you are in a cult, i hate this movie, i can’t believe i’m here, they’re trying to convert me look. That really hurt and I wanted to cry. After they turned the movie off, the Relief Society president gave a talk on what the Relief Society is and welcomed me to the Relief Society. The talk had a bit of sexist undertone that made me wince a little. More on that later. Then the bishop gave a talk about how glad they were that I was baptized and how the Church was true. And he pointed out that most of the people at the baptism didn’t even know me, but they wanted to support me. And he said that my ward family couldn’t replace my biological family. And he was happy that my friends and my family were there for me. Then we sang “Come Follow Me” which was coincidentally one of the hymn sung on the first day that I went to church. (I didn’t pick any of the hymn or the speakers though I guess most baptism candidates do.) Then we had snacks and drinks and I met a bunch of people and thanked them for coming to my baptism and that was it! I’m excited about my confirmation next week.

PS - Does anyone know where I can find some inexpensive scriptures? I have ‘economy’ copies of the Book of Mormon and the King James Bible that the missionaries gave me. I’d like some nicer scriptures but I can’t really afford to spend $60 right now. I might just end up ordering the ‘economy’ versions. I haven’t seen much on ebay or Amazon.