Our rings arrived today from Boone Titanium Rings. From left to right: J’s engagement ring; my ring (wedding & engagement) for work; my engagement ring. I need a separate ring for work because I really don’t want to get my rings all germy and gross when I’m at the hospital. Plus titanium is very strong and easier to sanitize.
Well, I had a very eventful weekend. J arrived, we packed up the car, I panicked because not everything fit in the car, we repackaged everything into grocery bags, we re-loaded the car, we hugged everyone goodbye, we drove to campus for one last look and… J AND I GOT ENGAGED! 
Woohoo! And I still can’t believe it. And then we spent the next 12 hours driving in the car and calling all of our family and friends.
That J is a sneaky, sneaky guy. He bought the antique engagement ring I fell in love with and showed him almost three months ago. At the time, he told me that he didn’t want any input from me on the proposal, but I managed to get him to look at rings with me so he would know what style I liked. And then he said that he preferred to get a new diamond and ring. So I thought it was a lost cause and that the ring was sold long, long ago. And it was sold — sold to J who sneakily picked it up before arriving at my house. Then on Friday night he went downstairs to “get a glass of water” and asked my dad for his blessing. According to J, my dad was smiling a lot. And apparently my mom and my sister were eavesdropping so they knew too. J proposed the next day when we went downtown to take one last tour of the campus before heading for the highway. I was suspicious by that point but I thought maybe I was just being silly. So I still went into shock when he went down on one knee and said, “Will you marry me?” I barely managed to mumble out “yes” and then “thank you” when I saw the ring. Who says ‘thank you’ during a proposal? ::smacks forehead:: I thought I’d cry and jump up and down, but, no, I kind of just stood there and said “yes.” Poor J.
As we walked back to the car, I asked, “By the way, where did you get this ring from?” And he said, “Where do you think I got it from?! It’s the one you showed me!” And I said, “Well, I thought so, but I wasn’t sure. I thought it was a lost cause.”
So here’s the ring. Isn’t it beautiful? I love it. (Of course, the picture doesn’t do it justice.) And what’s better is that I’m marrying J - the most wonderful guy ever.
Since investigating Mormonism I have worried over the fact that my boyfriend (and probable future husband) is not interested in the LDS Church. I worry about if our marriage will be stressed because we are of different faiths. I worry that I’m doing something wrong by not joining a church together. And I worry that we won’t be married for eternity.
Prior to investigating Mormonism, I always assumed that marriages and other family ties outlived death. This wasn’t based on any scriptural evidence, it was simply intuitive. Many non-LDS people think that way, despite the “until death do you part” clause of the typical marriage vows. BUT if I subscribe to LDS beliefs then family bonds do not extend beyond death unless they are sealed in a temple. My boyfriend would say, “Why is that? Would a caring, loving God really separate families?”
Well, you have to think about it in the LDS way and remember that Mormons believe in pre-existence. We are all children of God; we are all spiritual brothers and sisters. That is our initial bond to each other. You can think of the sealings on earth as a reassignment of those bonds into individual family units. This makes it slightly less weird to be sleeping with your spiritual brother (i.e. your husband). Without this reassignment of bonds, you are released from your earthly family bonds after death and you return to being merely a spiritual sister to your former husband, parents and children. According to LDS beliefs, only bonds sanctified by God in the temples are strong enough to withstand death and thus those spirits within those bonds do not experience dispersal of earthly familial bonds and they can retain their husband-wife, parent-child, etc relationships. (This is all sunlize thinking and not really official doctrine. This is my theory guided by the Spirit.)
This leads me to my question: How important is it to get married for now and eternity during our time on earth?
I think it is important to be married for eternity and sealed to our children, but I’m not sure if those events must be completed during our time on earth. This is mainly due to the work for the dead that takes place in the temples. Let’s assume that I marry my non-LDS boyfriend for this lifetime and he never converts. I will simply make sure that we are sealed after our deaths. (Well, I suppose he’d have to be baptized first and all that jazz.) Temple marriage by proxy wouldn’t be that hard to arrange. I could always have my children submit our names, or a close friend, or I could even write it in my will. I’m assuming that the Boy will accept the ordinances done in his name after death if he finds himself in ’spirit prison’. And if there is no spirit prison, then the ordinances won’t cause any harm.
Sure, there are blessings that come from being married or sealed in the temple, but these are related more to the blessings that come from both spouses/ parents being of LDS faith. For the marriage, conflict over issues of faith or of raising the children. Spouses are probably more likely to see eye-to-eye on financial and social issues. For the family, a family with the same faith is probably more cohesive in that part of their life. Everyone abides by the same rules of conduct. If the father is LDS, then he can administer ordinances like blessings and baptisms. Does this mean that mixed-faith marriages are worse than LDS marriages? No. There are plenty of good mixed faith marriages, just as there are some bad temple marriages.
I am also unsure that it is important to be sealed to your spouse during this lifetime because marriages change. Having a temple marriage does not ensure that both spouses will remain TBMs for the rest of their lives. I have read too many stories where one spouse becomes inactive or leaves the LDS faith. I’ve read stories of both spouses leaving the faith. And some of these people had incredibly strong testimonies throughout their lives. They never thought that they would leave the Church. Their spouses never thought their eternal marriage would become disrupted.
So I say, love the one you’re with. Marriages don’t succeed or fail based on the participants’ religious beliefs (or lack thereof). Ability to compromise, to accept your partner as he is, and to respect your partner’s beliefs are essential to having a successful marriage.
So I decide that the phone conversations have been pretty boring and that I should stir the pot. I ask the harmless question, “Would you take my last name if we got married like how you would take yours?” And I’m expecting the reasonable answer of “yes” and he said, “no”! Whaaa? Why not? We agree on the point that it just makes everyone’s lives easier if an immediate family has the same last name. But why does it have to be his last name? It could just as well be mine. My last name is more cool and unique than his. I wasn’t even asking him to take my last name, I was just asking him if he would. Why should he ask me to do something that he wouldn’t do himself? That’s not fair. (Yeah yeah, I know life’s not fair.) He thinks that our family should have his last name because it’s tradition and because it’s important to him. I push for other reasons - maybe the guys would make fun of him, maybe people would say stuff about us - but the only reason he’ll give me is that it’s tradition. If he has said yes, he would take my last name, then I wouldn’t have a problem with taking his. I don’t understand how he could be upset with me for not taking his last name when he won’t take mine.
Anyhow, it’s not a major issue in the relationship and we have plenty of time to talk about it. And I have a lot of time to make up my mind. I’ll probably end up taking his last name to keep the peace more than anything else. I just wish that he would at least be willing to take my name, if I’m going to be taking his.
Did anyone else have this issue before getting married? How did you deal with it? Is it ok for you to ask your significant other to do something that you wouldn’t do yourself? Would you take your significant other’s last name is she or he asked you to?
The news media and blogosphere is awash with posts and stories about the California Supreme Court’s ruling on gay marriage. First I’d like to point out that the decision says that marriage is a constitutional right. However, if an amendment banning gay marriage was added to the California Constitution, then gay marriage would be prohibited in California. My first thought upon reading the headline was “yay! that’s a win for us,” where “us” means those who oppose a ban on gay marriage. You can oppose a ban on gay marriage and still disagree with gay marriage. There are many people who don’t support an amendment that would take away rights from individuals.
Personally I support civil gay marriage. I think that churches/ religious institutions should be able to determine whether or not they will marry people. I think the best solution would be to institute “civil unions” or a secular recognition of a marriage/union for all couples - gay and straight. Then if you want to be married in a church, you have to find a church that agrees to marry you. Churches aren’t currently obligated to marry everyone who walks through their doors. I can’t force the LDS Church to marry my bf and I in the temple. In this plan, all previous/ existing marriages would be granted a civil union without having to go back to court. I don’t understand why there is opposition to this type of plan - can someone fill me in (in a polite way please)? I see the debate over the best environment to raise children in (gay, straight, single, married) as a completely different issue.
Maybe the problem is with our definition of marriage. Traditionally marriages were preformed by religious officials but they were also civilly binding. Now you can get married in a church or in a courthouse. You don’t get more civil benefits by getting married in a church. Let’s say my plan was enacted - civil unions are required for everyone, but church marriages are optional and the church can control who they marry. So everyone who has a civil marriage gets civil benefits - insurance benefits, tax benefits, et cetera. Churches can enact their own benefits as well. The LDS Church already does this in a way. Anyone not sealed or married in the temple cannot make it to the celestial kingdom. There’s also the benefits of fulfilling family expectations of getting married in a church. Unless the Boy converts to the LDS Church, we probably won’t be getting married by a religious leader and it won’t be in a church. This will be upsetting for some of relatives because the union won’t be blessed by God. But we feel that due to the variety of religions practiced by our families, as well as our own differing religions, a non-religious marriage would be the most peaceful and comfortable for everyone. Of course, I would prefer to eventually be sealed in the temple either in this life or the next and I doubt the bf would have an issue with that.
I think there are some great points brought up in the posts and comments at Feminine Mormon Housewives and By Common Consent. I’m sure there will be more posts in the next couple days.
On the way to work today I was talking to the Boy about the Word of Wisdom, specifically the alcohol part of it. I said, it’s not about whether or not I think the drinking alcohol is immoral or not. Drinking isn’t immoral, unless you do something irresponsible while you’re intoxicated. It’s about making a promise when I know I can’t keep that promise. Plus I can’t really fudge on the WoW because it’s pretty obvious if you’re drinking a beer at the bar.
Anyhow, I come how from work to find an email from the Boy. Basically he’s upset because I’m talking about changing what I do based on a rule I don’t really believe in. He has a good point there. But that’s why I’m continuing to meditate on it. Then he says, “I know it probably sounds like I’m just trying to fight this conversion idea tooth and nail, but I swear I told myself yesterday that I would just try to accept it and be supportive. That being said, I don’t want to see you give up something that I know you enjoy unless you’re sure it’s worth it.” Err… well, I know it’s worth it. (Ha! Maybe there’s my answer to the WoW issue!) And I’m concerned that he has to tell himself that he will try to accept it and be supportive. So we had a talk about that. It seemed to stress him out more than it stressed me out.
Here’s what we came up with. 1. Having a mixed faith marriage is not a deal-breaker. 2. Neither of us will try to convert each other. 3. His preferred church option is for us all to have the same religion. I’ve told him that I can’t promise him that. Another option (my preferred option) is to go to our ‘family’ service in the morning and then I can go to the LDS service in the afternoon. Hopefully we’ll live in a ward with an afternoon service. For some bizarre reason, that is not a good option for the Boy. Why? Because, according to him, I would be “just paying lip-service” to that church. Um, no, I’m fairly flexible on attending church services. I’ll go and support my husband and kids as long as I don’t have to believe. I did grow up in a Protestant church, y’know. Another option is for him to come to church with me - and then when we have kids, we can decide whether or not to send them to Sunday school or to have them just go to sacrament meeting. Of course, I’d be fine with him being baptized too 
— but only if that’s what he wants to do. The Boy says he just needs to get used to the idea that I’m probably going to be a Mormon. Poor guy.
I had a teary conversation about faith last night with the Boy. For those of you not following along, I am an investigator of the Mormon church. The Boy(friend) is fairly non-religious and not very spiritual. We plan on getting engaged fairly soon so we try to talk out all of our differences and similarities so we know what to expect in marriage. Faith is becoming one of those differences. We both grew up Protestant but hadn’t attended church regularly in years. I figured we’d find some nice Protestant church to join when we had kids. Now I’ve gone and messed everything up.
I feel that spirituality is an intensely personal thing. I don’t think anyone should have to compromise on their beliefs. I want my kids to be independent thinkers who choose to believe or disbelieve in things. I want the Boy to make religious decisions on his own. Previously I told him that I would never pressure him to subscribe to the same faith as me. I also gave him the ability to refuse to bring up our future kids in the Mormon church. Currently he’s not attending any church. But with me going to church, it looks like he wants to attend a church too.
The most recent statement from him is that he will support me in whatever faith I choose. If I join the Mormon church, he will attend services with me but he probably won’t be baptized. If it’s important to me, then it’s important to him too. (He’s a good bf. ) Apparently he’s been doing some research. He’s reading LDS apologist, ex-mormon, and NOM websites, I think. He asks me questions all the time. Questions I don’t have the answers to. I finally said, “You could just talk to the missionaries. Just tell them ahead of time that you don’t want to convert.” He said that he would talk to them. I almost spit water all over my keyboard. His request to me is to attend other churches with him until we found one that was right for us. But that won’t be happening soon because we won’t be living with each other until Dec. 2009, and we won’t even be in the same state.
I feel guilty for bringing this disagreement into our relationship. I think we both are having trouble with what we want for ourselves versus what we want the other person to do. For example, the Boy wants me to find a church with him. He also wants me to be happy and says that he really shouldn’t be asking me to be of the same faith or denomination as him. I feel bad because I think he should be able to ask that of me. I feel guilty for not seeing religion as a ‘couple’ activity. At the same time, I want to make my own decisions about my spirituality and my faith. I don’t particularly care what he does, though he is welcome to join me if he likes. So basically we are both too nice and we want the other person to be happy.
Another thing he said to me was, “I can tell by the way you talk that you’ve already made up your mind about this. I know you will join the Mormon church.” I wanted to say, “No, that’s not true.” But maybe it is. I don’t know. I suppose that’s another post entirely.
ETA: Some helpful links I’ve found:
A few weeks ago I stumbled across a post at The Cultural Hall titled “Confessions of a Serial Masturbator/ Repenter“. I have to admit, I am fascinated with all things Mormon and sexual. There’s something about the contrasting messages within the church and the bloggernacle. The LDS church teaches the Law of Chastity which basically means no sex outside of marriage, and marriage is between a man and a woman. From what I can tell, most LDS abstain from sex until they are married. The Church also teaches that “physical intimacy between husband and wife is beautiful and sacred. It is ordained of God for the creation of children and for the expression of love within marriage” (LDS). So there is this contrasting message between being chaste outside of marriage and enjoying sex within marriage. My reading on the ‘nacle indicates that most married LDS have very active, healthy sex lives. I cannot wrap my secularly-raised head around that. I suppose it’s because I view most people who believe in abstinence before marriage as sexually repressed (unfair, I know). They are told sex is bad bad bad, and this mentality brings them shame about all sexuality.
Anyhow, getting back to my main point, the post on masturbation really got me thinking about what I want to teach my children about sexuality. Here’s what I’ve come up with thus far:
What do you plan on teaching your kids about sexuality? What have you taught them already? What do you wish your parents/elders had taught you? Do you wish you had done something differently?
What better way to start off then to discuss the all-time confusing topic of getting engaged? Let me fill you in on the relationship thus far. The Boy and I have been dating for a little over a year. We met online via Match.com which sounds really cheesy. Yes yes, I see you rolling your eyes. But he was a student at the same school as me which makes it much less creepy than you might expect. Anyhow, after the third date I basically knew that we would get married one day. There was that instant sort of connection; we felt like we knew each other all our lives. As we enjoyed the first few months of being in love, there was a dark cloud hanging overhead: The Boy would be graduating and moving across the country in a few months. After many arguments with myself I decided that the connection we had was more important than the fact that he would be 12 hours away.
So while the beginning was rather rough, the year hasn’t been too bad. We see each every 3-5 weeks - this is mostly made possible by his full-time salary. Now the plan is/was/will ever be for me to move out to be with him. Ideally I would also be moving out there to go to school. Unfortunately, I am currently jobless and school-less. Thus I am not finding much motivation in moving out there. After a year of this we can obviously survive being apart for a few more months. I am just having a hard time with moving there for “us” or as it sometimes feels, for him.
If I was his wife, or soon-to-be-wife, this would be a whole lot easier. For the sake of “us” I could give up the job I love, the city I call home, and the closeness to my family. Can I give all of that up as his girlfriend? I’m not so sure. It’s not like we’re moving out there together. He’s already established there and I’m leaving everything behind. This ’sacrifice’ (as I see it) would be easier if we were experiencing these losses and frustrations together. I know that I will move out there. If not next month, then at the end of the summer. But I also know that without that marriage commitment I will be resentful and bitter beyond what is healthy.
The Boy visited this past weekend and I dragged him down to the antique shop with me to show him engagement rings. I found the most beautiful ring and we had my finger sized and everything. The Boy wants to plan out the proposal by himself without any input from me. Fine, I’ll grant that. But I really did put the pressure on this weekend. I want him to know how I feel without him feeling like I’m giving him an ultimatum. Finally I reminded him, “Moving out East is a huge commitment for me, and I would like a tangible commitment from you in return.” And after thinking all of this over, I’m not sure what I want. Do I want to be engaged ASAP? Or do I want him to wait?
Half of me says I want to be engaged ASAP so that I feel like I am more able to make the decision to move out there. It will also help me feel less resentful since I will feel like the commitment is reciprocated. Half of me wants him to wait until I move out there. I don’t feel totally in love with him right now. Maybe we should wait until I’ve stopped feeling resentful about the move. Either way, I’ll say yes and I won’t regret it at all. Perhaps I should just leave the timing up to him and deal with whatever happens…
